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Post by magnumforce73 on Jan 8, 2020 12:31:26 GMT -8
but nowhere in the EAR/ONS saga, mf73 Key word here: EAR/ONS. EAR/ONS is only what the police were forced to link. Strangulation by ligature is essentially a form of bondage. This is a killer who shot people and bludgeoned them, of course he's going to strangle and stab as well. The "escalation" to ONS theory is based on viewing a small portion of the offenders murders relying solely on the crimes police were competent enough to link, and we all know how competent police are. In order to get a full picture we must disregard the police theories and start over with the timeline.
PS Donna Richmond (classmate of JJD's nephew) was strangled and stabbed.
I'd be more inclined to agree if this particular action was also present in the other series--unfortunately, it's not, and that's why it's a very hard sell in my opinion; however, I respect your reasoning, and it's definitely something into which current active investigators should look. "Strangulation by ligature is essentially a form of bondage."--Respectfully disagree. It's a means by which a person dispatches another in cruel fashion, and I just don't see J.J.D. trying that because he simply lacks the physicality necessary--martial arts training, M.M.A.-type tactics, etc.--for that to succeed. For all his activity and his success rate, he had his moments where he was sloppy--even having female victims hold their own against him. One thing I try to do with the police, especially the individuals involved at the time he was active as EAR/ONS, is place the onus where it really belongs--not so much on investigators and officers serving in patrol units; the problem on that end rests with the politicians that comprise the departments' upper management--feel free to use those office jockeys the way you would an Everlast speedbag if'n you like. With that in mind, not every cop dropped the ball: you had Sgt. John Vaughn of Visalia P.D. who took a trip up to Sacramento to warn them of what transplanted itself into their backyard following the disastrous McGowen stakeout; when couples began being savagely murdered in their bedrooms in Santa Barbara, Ventura, and Orange Counties (as of Sept. 80), Sgt. Jim Bevins of S.C.S.D. was the one who attempted to do for Santa Barbara what Sgt. Vaughn had attempted to do for Sacramento several years earlier. Unfortunately, it's not the blunt, hardcharging "heartbreakers and lifetakers" who call the shots in police bureaucracy--it's politicians who happen to have a shield and a sidearm, and it's the latter who value "optics" more than they do results. Police, whether today or yesterday, are in a tight spot because they walk a tightrope: they want to do their jobs, but they are limited in what they can do and how they do it thanks to the bureaucracy that looms over them--along with the politics that always follows along with that. I'm not saying that you are wrong; with the passage of time, you could well turn out to be on the money, but based off what I've seen, it's a bit on the thin side. As for Donna Richmond, I'll refrain from saying anything only because I'm not quite as up to speed on that as I am with other phases in the series. mf73
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Post by Wonky Jr. on Jan 8, 2020 12:52:57 GMT -8
but nowhere in the EAR/ONS saga, mf73 Key word here: EAR/ONS. EAR/ONS is only what the police were forced to link. Strangulation by ligature is essentially a form of bondage. This is a killer who shot people and bludgeoned them, of course he's going to strangle and stab as well. The "escalation" to ONS theory is based on viewing a small portion of the offenders murders relying solely on the crimes police were competent enough to link, and we all know how competent police are. In order to get a full picture we must disregard the police theories and start over with the timeline.
PS Donna Richmond (classmate of JJD's nephew) was strangled and stabbed.
Totally agree. We only "know" what we know and what we have been fed. If police didn't link it back in the day, people say "it couldn't be him because it doesn't fit his MO". Yeah right.... like we know all of his MO's.
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Post by murderinc on Jan 8, 2020 12:57:34 GMT -8
Key word here: EAR/ONS. EAR/ONS is only what the police were forced to link. Strangulation by ligature is essentially a form of bondage. This is a killer who shot people and bludgeoned them, of course he's going to strangle and stab as well. The "escalation" to ONS theory is based on viewing a small portion of the offenders murders relying solely on the crimes police were competent enough to link, and we all know how competent police are. In order to get a full picture we must disregard the police theories and start over with the timeline.
PS Donna Richmond (classmate of JJD's nephew) was strangled and stabbed.
Totally agree. We only "know" what we know and what we have been fed. If police didn't link it back in the day, people say "it couldn't be him because it doesn't fit his MO". Yeah right.... like we know all of his MO's. and "MO" is really just another police theory
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jenn
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Post by jenn on Jan 8, 2020 18:24:28 GMT -8
Murder, the "escalation" theory is troubling in other areas as well. As Sandia (agent 99) pointed out in the Eva Taylor murder. Even though Eva was murdered early on (1974) he could very well have been "trying it out" with an easy victim prior to moving on. The Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office believes ONLY in the escalation theory, which is their reasoning for discounting jjd as the murderer of Eva Taylor. Wake up SBSO!
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sammyt
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Post by sammyt on Jan 9, 2020 7:04:07 GMT -8
but nowhere in the EAR/ONS saga, mf73 Key word here: EAR/ONS. EAR/ONS is only what the police were forced to link. Strangulation by ligature is essentially a form of bondage. This is a killer who shot people and bludgeoned them, of course he's going to strangle and stab as well. The "escalation" to ONS theory is based on viewing a small portion of the offenders murders relying solely on the crimes police were competent enough to link, and we all know how competent police are. In order to get a full picture we must disregard the police theories and start over with the timeline.
PS Donna Richmond (classmate of JJD's nephew) was strangled and stabbed.
I agree that the police are likely to have missed serious crimes in the long JJD series. I didn't know that Donna was a classmate of JJD's nephew. That's an interesting connection. Was 'Uncle JJD' close to his nephew?
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sammyt
Junior Member
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Post by sammyt on Jan 9, 2020 7:15:29 GMT -8
Murder, the "escalation" theory is troubling in other areas as well. As Sandia (agent 99) pointed out in the Eva Taylor murder. Even though Eva was murdered early on (1974) he could very well have been "trying it out" with an easy victim prior to moving on. The Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office believes ONLY in the escalation theory, which is their reasoning for discounting jjd as the murderer of Eva Taylor. Wake up SBSO! Yet LE seems certain that JJD killed Prof. Snelling and the Maggiores - and so do actually believe JJD actually was able to 'de-escalate' from murder to other crimes! I'm no expert on the Eva Taylor murder, but like the Snelling and Maggiore murders, it looks to have been a similar case of an offender killing when challenged, caught in the act or possibly recognised.
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Post by Wonky Jr. on Jan 9, 2020 9:38:42 GMT -8
Key word here: EAR/ONS. EAR/ONS is only what the police were forced to link. Strangulation by ligature is essentially a form of bondage. This is a killer who shot people and bludgeoned them, of course he's going to strangle and stab as well. The "escalation" to ONS theory is based on viewing a small portion of the offenders murders relying solely on the crimes police were competent enough to link, and we all know how competent police are. In order to get a full picture we must disregard the police theories and start over with the timeline.
PS Donna Richmond (classmate of JJD's nephew) was strangled and stabbed.
I agree that the police are likely to have missed serious crimes in the long JJD series. I didn't know that Donna was a classmate of JJD's nephew. That's an interesting connection. Was 'Uncle JJD' close to his nephew? It's been said (can't remember now who said it on the other board) that JJD and the nephew were extremely close and that they frequently rode around together.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 9:45:27 GMT -8
I agree that the police are likely to have missed serious crimes in the long JJD series. I didn't know that Donna was a classmate of JJD's nephew. That's an interesting connection. Was 'Uncle JJD' close to his nephew? It's been said (can't remember now who said it on the other board) that JJD and the nephew were extremely close and that they frequently rode around together. I remember hearing something like that as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 14:03:15 GMT -8
Murder, the "escalation" theory is troubling in other areas as well. As Sandia (agent 99) pointed out in the Eva Taylor murder. Even though Eva was murdered early on (1974) he could very well have been "trying it out" with an easy victim prior to moving on. The Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office believes ONLY in the escalation theory, which is their reasoning for discounting jjd as the murderer of Eva Taylor. Wake up SBSO! Yet LE seems certain that JJD killed Prof. Snelling and the Maggiores - and so do actually believe JJD actually was able to 'de-escalate' from murder to other crimes! I'm no expert on the Eva Taylor murder, but like the Snelling and Maggiore murders, it looks to have been a similar case of an offender killing when challenged, caught in the act or possibly recognised. Holes now believes that Eva Taylor’s murder could have been JJD. He talked about her case in his podcast.
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k862
New Member
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Post by k862 on Jan 18, 2020 15:58:54 GMT -8
Key word here: EAR/ONS. EAR/ONS is only what the police were forced to link. Strangulation by ligature is essentially a form of bondage. This is a killer who shot people and bludgeoned them, of course he's going to strangle and stab as well. The "escalation" to ONS theory is based on viewing a small portion of the offenders murders relying solely on the crimes police were competent enough to link, and we all know how competent police are. In order to get a full picture we must disregard the police theories and start over with the timeline.
PS Donna Richmond (classmate of JJD's nephew) was strangled and stabbed.
I agree that the police are likely to have missed serious crimes in the long JJD series. I didn't know that Donna was a classmate of JJD's nephew. That's an interesting connection. Was 'Uncle JJD' close to his nephew? Very close!
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Post by nick on Jan 18, 2020 22:47:14 GMT -8
The crazy thing about JJD is how he moved up the chain in escalation on different crimes series. For example, the Rancho cat started out prowling peeping and evolved into entering the home during daytime hours to a second evolution of entering at night while victims slept to another evolution into standing oversleeping victims and finally a desperate daytime attempt at sexual assault with a firearm discharge. Then in 1976 the EAR series starts out with JJD prowling and then in June evolving to sexual assault and then the ONS series he evolves into a murderer. If we are to believe that JJD is VR then we had already seen a complete evolution from breaking into unoccupied homes all the way to murder. I know some of the returning to the start of his evolution could be explained by him hiding the fact he was the same offender in different series but for him to have the ability to put the genie back in the bottle and start at the first evolution is quite disturbing because he JJD could do it how many more are there out there.
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Post by griswoldeerie on Jan 24, 2020 12:26:03 GMT -8
Murder rinc, I remember an article from your site that mentioned a very young child murdered in 1961. I keep thinking this may be his possible "first." What are your thoughts on that? Do you recall the toddler I'm talking about?
EDIT sorry I went back and looked and you have added more since I last looked at your site. I think he was going after the easy prey as a young prowler and taking kids makes sense for a 15 year old JJD. Sorry, this thread is about 1973. My bad. But- the abduction attempt on May 22 1961 was from a bearded and barefooted overweight perp whom drove a car. JJD's 1961 photo does not resemble that description when he was 15, but he could have been driving around with a beard, with pillows under his shirt I suppose. Not being cynical. I'm just weighing the possibilities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 3:50:39 GMT -8
It seems Murderinc has gone back to the other board.
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Post by Wonky Jr. on Jan 26, 2020 10:47:52 GMT -8
It seems Murderinc has gone back to the other board. Weird how they let him back on but not me. Oh well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 4:26:18 GMT -8
It seems Murderinc has gone back to the other board. Weird how they let him back on but not me. Oh well. Murderinc is a she, Wonkster .
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